Tribulation Recognizability part 2
Continuing where we left off...
When we look at Daniel 9, start at verse 20. Verse 20-23 is an introduction to the situation. In verse 24, Daniel is telling us the answer he was given. Verse 25 the angel Gabriel makes it clear that what follows is important to know and understand.
Verse 25-27 ""Know and understand this: From the issuing of the decree to restore and rebuild Jerusalem until the Anointed One, the ruler, comes, there will be seven 'sevens,' and sixty-two 'sevens.' It will be rebuilt with streets and a trench, but in times of trouble. After the sixty-two 'sevens,' the Anointed One will be cut off and will have nothing. The people of the ruler who will come will destroy the city and the sanctuary. The end will come like a flood: War will continue until the end, and desolations have been decreed. He will confirm a covenant with many for one 'seven.' In the middle of the 'seven' he will put an end to sacrifice and offering. And on a wing of the temple he will set up an abomination that causes desolation, until the end that is decreed is poured out on him."
Okay, verses 25&26 are a little easier read in KJV:
"Know therefore and understand that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build
And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for Himself; and the people of the prince who shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary. And the end thereof shall be with a flood, and until the end of the war desolations are determined."
The difficult part here is knowing when the decree, or commandment was given, and what that decree of commandment was. As I read through many commentaries on Daniel 9:25, it is apparent that this is received many different ways.
I believe that no one knows what this could be, however it is obviously very significant, for a couple reasons.
1. It is a fulfilled prophecy from Isaiah65:24. ("Before they call I will answer; while they are still speaking I will hear.") It is also to note that Daniel writes "While I was speaking and praying"(verse 20) and "while I was still in prayer" (verse 21) making sure there is no confusion.
2. Gabriel was in a hurry to get there. "Gabriel, the man I had seen in the earlier vision, came to me in swift flight" (verse 21)
3. As soon as Daniel started to pray, God gave him an answer, to which God then commanded Gabriel to deliver quickly. "As soon as you began to pray, an answer was given" (verse 23).
Back to the time framing issues:
It should be noted that the times given should be separated into 3 groups, 70 "sevens" in total. The first group would be 7 "sevens", the second group would be 62 "sevens", and the third group would be 1 "seven". So there are three things going on here.
It has been suggested that the first group, or 7 "sevens" points to the edict of Cyrus, allowing the return of
The 62 "sevens", as I understand it, would reference the time when “Jerusalem shall be built so that the city takes in a wide space, has wide, free places, but not, however, unlimited in width, but such that their compass is measured off, is fixed and bounded.”
The last group, 1 "seven" would reference the ruler who destroys the city (stated in verse 26 "The people of the ruler who will come will destroy the city and the sanctuary"). Verse 27 says "He will confirm a covenant with many for one 'seven.' In the middle of the 'seven' he will put an end to sacrifice and offering. And on a wing of the temple he will set up an abomination that causes desolation, until the end that is decreed is poured out on him."
My Thoughts:
The first seven, is referring to the edict Cyrus gave. This is important because "the LORD moved the heart of Cyrus" (2 Chronicles 36:22)
The 62 sevens would refer to when
The last seven would then reference a major war, where
Now you are probably thinking, “Layne has gone crazy.” But wait! There’s more!!
2010 is the last of the 62. the last of the seven would start then in 2011, and finish in 2012. How is this significant? Nostradamus predicted the end of the world in 2012; The Mayan calendar also predicted the same.
Remarkably, if 2012 ends the 70 sevens, and IF you were a believer in the Pre-Trib theories.... 2012 is an election year for
Lastly let us take the Bible as 100% truth:
Mark 13:32 "No one knows about that day or hour, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father."
Matthew 24:36 "No one knows about that day or hour, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father."
The year is never mentioned.
9 comments:
It looks like you put a lot of thought and effort into this. However, to be honest I don't agree with it. Citing that "Nostradamus predicted the end of the world in 2012; The Mayan calendar also predicted the same" holds no water with me.
My notes suggest that the time spans from the Persian Artaxerxes' decree to rebuild Jerusalem, 445 B.C. (Nehemiah 2:1-8), to the Messiahs's kingdom. This includes 1)7 weeks of 49 years, possibly closing Nehemiah's career in the rebuilding of the "street and wall", as well as the end of the ministry of Malachi and the close of the O.T.; 2)62 weeks or 434 more years for a total of 483 years to the first advent of Messiah. This was fulfilled at the triumphal entry in A.D 30 (Matthew 21:1-9). The Messiah will be "cut off" (v.26), (a common reference to death); and 3) the final 7 years or 70th week of the time of Antichrist (v.27).
It also notes that the weeks in Daniel 9:24-26 are weeks of years, whereas weeks of days are described in a different way in Daniel 10:2-3.
I am no expert, nor do I claim to be one. To end this long post I would agree with the Bible and you that nobody knows the day nor the hour and our primary goal should be to strengthen our Christian walk and evangelize and be prepared .
The commentary:
Keil & Delitzsch Commentary on the Old Testament by: Johann (C.F.) Keil (1807-1888) & Franz Delitzsch (1813-1890)
I used this because of the vast knowledge they show in regard to Hebrew, and also how they relate the words to other verses in the Bible. It is important that we test our knowledge against the rest of the Bible, and they have shown this.
Pertaining to Nehemiah "The last words, העתּים וּבצוק, point to the circumstances under which the building proceeds: in the difficulty, the oppression of the times. The book of Nehemiah, 3:33; Neh_4:1., Dan_6:1., 9:36, 37, furnishes a historical exposition of them, although the words do not refer to the building of the walls and bulwarks of the earthly Jerusalem which was accomplished by Nehemiah, but are to be understood, according to Ps. 51:20, of the spiritual building of the City of God."
As far as the third group:
"From יכּרת it cannot thus be strictly proved that this part of the verse announces the putting to death of an anointed one, or of the Messiah. Of the word Maschiach three possible interpretations have been given: 1. That the Maschiach Nagid of Dan_9:25, the Maschiach of Dan_9:26, and the Nagid of Dan_9:26, are three different persons; 2. that all the three expressions denote one and the same person; and 3. that the Maschiach Nagid of Dan_9:25 and the Maschiach of Dan_9:26 are the same person, and that the Nagid of Dan_9:26 is another and a different person. The first of these has been maintained by J. D. Michaelis, Jahn. Ebrard understands by all the three expressions the Messiah, and supposes that he is styled fully Maschiach Nagid in Dan_9:25 in order that His calling and His dignity (משׁיח), as well as His power and strength (נגיד), might be designated; in Dan_9:26, משׁיח, the anointed, where mention is made of His sufferings and His rejection; in Dan_9:26, נגיד, the prince, where reference is made to the judgment which He sends (by the Romans on apostate Jerusalem). But this view is refuted by the circumstance that הבּא (that is to come) follows נגיד, whereby the prince is represented as first coming, as well as by the circumstance that הבּא נגיד, who destroys the city and the sanctuary, whose end shall be with a flood, consequently cannot be the Messiah, but is the enemy of the people and kingdom of God, who shall arise (Dan_7:24-25) in the last time. But if in Dan_9:26 the Nagid is different from the Maschiach, then both also appear to be different from the Maschiach Nagid of Dan_9:25. The circumstance that in Dan_9:26 משׁיח has neither the article nor the addition נגיד following it, appears to be in favour of this opinion. The absence of the one as well as the other denotes that משׁיח, after that which is said of Him, in consideration of the connection of the words, needs no more special description. If we observe that the destruction of the city and the sanctuary is so connected with the Maschiach that we must consider this as the immediate or first consequence of the cutting off of the Maschiach, and that the destruction shall be brought about by a Nagid, then by Maschiach we can understand neither a secular prince or king nor simply a high priest, but only an anointed one who stands in such a relation to the city and sanctuary, that with his being "cut off" the city and the sanctuary lose not only their protection and their protector, but the sanctuary also loses, at the same time, its character as the sanctuary, which the Maschiach had given to it. This is suitable to no Jewish high priest, but only to the Messias whom Jehovah anointed to be a Priest-King after the order of Melchizedek, and placed as Lord over Zion, His holy hill. We agree therefore with Hävernick, Hengstenberg, Auberlen, and Kliefoth, who regard the Maschiach of this verse as identical with the Maschiach Nagid of Dan_9:25, as Christ, who in the fullest sense of the word is the Anointed;"
I like it.
And at the same time, I don't want it to be so.
Thanks for sharing.
I haven't studied Daniel in quite a while and it was encouraging to read what you wrote.
I must admit that the math you presented did not seem to add up. 2010-2012 seems like two years to me and not seven; but maybe I just read wrong.
I do agree with what Craig has said about the past fulfillment. But that does not deny a future fulfillment. Prophecy does not seem to have a single instance fulfillment; and typically at least two fulfillments.
2012 is probably going to be an important year; too many independant prophecies speak of it. But from whom do the prophecies come from and to what purpose...? Are they from the LORD signifying a return - couldn't as there just isn't enough time left for what prophecy we know is true to be fulfilled..? Are they from Satan - possible, as there is supposed to be a lie that even the elect might believe..?
Good topic to research Layne! I spend a lot of time here myself. At least we know prophecy in Scripture is true. The Spirit within me says that at least some of the other prophecies are true also - such as the Hopi Indian's. Nostradamus, Mayan, and Cayce...? I don't know. I know I get a less than positive "feeling" about the Mayan.
This is going to surprise you Layne, but I agree with Craig. =)
All my studying of the 70 weeks tells me that the first 69 have already been fulfilled and that the last week is reserved for the reign of the Anti-Christ. Furthermore, in prophecy, a day usually means a year. So a week would have to consist of 7 years.
I'm also failing to see the 2010 to 2012 thing. That's certainly two years.
You have accomplished something amazing. You've made me want to go research prophecy. That is an aspect that I usually stay away from. congrats!
I emailed Craig a book explaining my reasons and how "I" disproved it. (imo)
The thing about 2010/2011 is just my way of saying theres the sign. Its like the exit sign before the rapture, If Israel is hit in a massive war, then I think its proof enough for me that the rapture will occur in 2012.
The bible does not go into great detail about the specific time in which the apocalypse is to happen. We should be careful not to go into greater detail then scripture does, as scripture is the true, living word of God and is not to be changed or added to.
We should rest assured that God’s plan is going to be fulfilled, as his word says, and to prepare our own hearts in accordance to his commands because, “No one knows about that day or hour, not even the angels in heaven, but only the Father.” Matthew 24:36.
We should keep watch but realize that God’s word does not ask us to determine the exact timing… in fact, in every event that the timing of the end is discussed in the bible, it specifically tells us that precise timing is to be unknown to us and that Christ will return “like a thief in the night”
God did not share prophecies of the apocalypse so that we would live our lives stunted with fear and anxious anticipation. He created us to glorify him, to spread his word and live joyfully and peacefully. We are not to make plans for ourselves but live according to the word.
To anyone who would make plans for his life based on the ideas of his own heart, I encourage him to seek wise counsel and present all plans before the Lord and ultimately seek the plans God desires of him. I encourage you to read and heed:
Proverbs 16:1-3, 9, 20
By no means am I suggesting that I know the exact time... nor am I suggesting that I cannot be wrong. I also accept the responsibility that if I am wrong, it is of my own fault.
I am neither adding to, nor taking away from the Word of God. I am making an interpretation, to which I openly admit, any time I share my thoughts on this topic, I can be totally off.
If you believe that God has revealed something of importance to you in the Bible, what do you do? Do you not research the topic in great depth? Do you not go back to the original language? Do you talk amongst friends for input? Do you seek out a pastors advice? Do you pray for wisdom and guidance, asking God to reveal the truth?
I have done these things, what else must I do to appeal to others? Do you believe that the gift of prophecy ended with the apostles? (I am not suggesting that this is in anyway some kind of prophecy, I am just trying to better understand you) What does it take for todays Christians to believe something?
In truth, I am not in total disproval of the fact that you believe you have determined the specific timing – only that it has lead to decision making on your part… how you will “make plans” for your life and future generations based on your calculations.
I do believe in prophecy, I have the gift myself as well as discernment. I was instructed on my gift that a prophet must always have fellow prophets weigh what he says. 1 Corinthians 14:26-38.
I have also studied the signs of the apocalypse and would agree with much of your argument. However, I believe that God gave/gives us revelations about the end times not so that we would only worry about when it will happen and where we will be, but also so that we can better understand him; who he is and more of his nature. I believe that he shows us bits of his plan so that we do not go about our lives believing that life on Earth will continue on into infinity and therefore, dare I say, pointless.
He created us intelligent, inquisitive and hungry for purpose and a better life. Since he has shared that these things will come to an end we can hope for the day of his return.
I strongly believe that the bible does not intend for us to make decisions about our future generations for ourselves based on how we feel about the world and when it will end. Just as Jesus taught us in the Lord’s Prayer “… thy will be done on Earth as it is in Heaven…” I believe that he meant everything is included in God’s will… whether it be the salvation of new believers or bringing children into the world. We are indeed given free will, but true obedience would turn that will back over to God for all things great and small.
It is our command to “take captive every thought to make it obedient to Christ.” 2 Corinthians 10:5. I would challenge you to consider whether that is the case in the issue I am discussing. I bring this up only because it has been brought to light and although I do not believe that it is God’s will that everyone have children I do not believe that we are to assume that just because the world is a dark place that it is no place for a blessing such as children (which the bible clearly states that they are). The world has been a dark place ever since the falls of man – war and abominations have taken place for thousands of years and each generation believes it is more horrible than the previous (just as the bible states it will be).
Many scholars throughout history have believed that they were living in the final days (not to say that I do not believe that we are not). I am certain, knowing what I know about you and your desire for the truth that you have consulted with many wise people on your beliefs. I intend no disrespect for your work and your passion. But I do believe that it is important that to accept without prejudice, the wisdom of others and try to understand where God may be speaking through them.
I respect your stance greatly and love to read about your findings. I am in no way discounting or discrediting you, but I feel compelled to present this challenge before you for your review. 1 Corinthians 13:2
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